Category Archives: Mann Overboard

After a 2-year hiatus, the Mann Overboard blog is back. This blog will cover anything and everything that comes to mind. There will be market forecasts. Suggestions regarding interesting web sites, books, or topics I think readers should check out. My continual diatribe on the real estate appraisal industry and all of its wrongs. My support for a new real property valuation profession, adopting Mortgage Lending Value in America, creating Real Property Risk Ratings in America, and introducing readers to the concept of Socionomics. Other topics will surely arise.

Feedback will be limited to approved site visitors. This is not to limit disagreement – different ideas are needed for us to advance any concept we discuss. I just want to keep the content professional. Replies whining about old subjects like AMCs and what banks have done to the industry and such don’t get us anywhere. And simpl


SEPTEMBER 13, 2023 – The September report came in at 3.7%, just below my forecast of 3.5%-3.6%. The 3-month annualized inflation rate is 3.9%. The 6-month annualized inflation rate is 4.1%. These figures are slightly above the annualized rate (3.7%) and thus indicate the annual CPI should not change much.
Based on the data, my prediction for next month’s figure is 3.8%. Due to oil prices steadily increasing, I do not think 3.9% can be ruled out.
I think the 3.8%-3.9% range will remain the same for the November report, also. Then watch out as the next two reports should show annual CPI for 2023 to be above 4%. That should not make the Fed happy.
OIL – A quick note for all of the happy plants on Earth. We are at a record level of 105 million (!) barrels of oil being used everyday. We have surpassed the prior record that occurred in 2019 before the Pandemic. The death of fossil fuels has been greatly exaggerated. In fact, there appears to be a direct correlation between more Electric Vehicles (EVs) and more oil consumption. This is not a surprise to anyone outside the misinformation environmentalist community. More electric usage means more fossil fuel usage. Which, of course, helps the planet’s plants as they live on CO2. As production is running at only 103 million barrels per day, the shortage will continue to drive oil prices higher. Which will contribute to inflation edging higher.
For a moment, you should sit and try to comprehend how much oil 105 millions barrels is. There are 42 gallons in a barrel. That is a mindboggling amount of oil being used everyday. For decades in the past and decades in the future. How much oil is/was in the Earth?!?!? Seems like the Earth is a giant oil ball. And if we use all that oil and it turns to CO2 or such, will the Earth become much lighter than it was? How many dinosaurs did it take to create all of this oil? Thankfully, humans saw the opportunity for sustainability and found a way to recycle all of the dinosaurs. We definitely have at least 30-50+ years more of recycling ahead of us. Environmentalists, you are embarrassing failures.
Til next month’s report.
The Mann


AUGUST 31, 2023 – As we end August, a quick look at what the market is telling the Fed to do at its September 19-20th meeting. 3-month and 6-month Treasury Bills are yielding 5.56%-5.58%. The Fed Funds Rate is at 5.25%-5.5%. That is saying not to raise the rate. However, it wouldn’t take much for those rates to get to a point where the market says to raise rates by another 25bp.
For awhile the market has said no change in September and a 25bp increase in December. That seems to still be the case. We will see if anything changes over the next few weeks.
Have a great Labor Day weekend.
And good riddance to July and August!
The Mann


AUGUST 26, 2023 – Hopefully, it is a full liquidation bankruptcy and its 2300+ stores are closed down. For 30+ years, I have wondered why shareholders didn’t complain about the drugstore chains paying 500%-1000%+ too much for their real estate. The excuse that the business profits would make up for the real estate losses was BS.
I am aware of a situation about 25 years ago where one of the chains wanted a rural site that was worth about $100,000. They gave the site selector instructions to buy at any cost. The farmer that owned it didn’t want to sell and turned down offers of $3 million, then $4 million, on up to $10 million!!!! The market turned down and they ended up not buying any site in the area. But, to be willing to pay ANYTHING for a $100,000 piece of property was insane.
This bankruptcy may be due to the opioid lawsuits. But, it is needed just for the stupidity of real estate purchases over the past 30+ years.
There are modern day companies doing the same. Some pay too much and others land lease at obscene rates. A few years ago I reviewed an appraisal report where one big-name c-store leased a parcel of land that was just bought for $800,000. The capped land rental was $6mm!!!!! Again, why pay a rental rate that is 7.5x market!?!?!? I probably won’t be around to see these companies go bankrupt.
Call me insane for thinking you can buy your real estate at market AND have a profitable business.
Lastly, I hope all the appraisers that use 0% Vacancy for these national tenant leases realize how stupid that is. As I have said for decades, large companies have the best lawyers and can get out of leases easier than local tenants can. Divide the number of store closures over the past 20 years by the number of stores in the country and you probably have a good vacancy factor to use for these leases.
One of the reasons big-time investors have consistently overpaid for real estate by about 20% for the past 30+ years is assuming no vacancy loss. The other two items they underestimate in their assumptions are expenses and cap rates.
If appraisers really wanted to ‘reflect the market,’ they would come in 20% below the purchase prices for national tenant properties. Easy to do by using a realistic 5%-10% vacancy and 100bp higher cap rate.
Alas, it won’t happen. Market Price is what the market wants and what appraisers provide. At least we know for this property type, Market Value is 20% lower.
The Mann


AUGUST 23, 2023 – I will just give the link to an article on this subject. It supports my argument that CRE loans are not a worry for the overall banking industry. However, I am sure there are other articles with other data that suggest otherwise.
Between the stats in this article and my posts showing that higher interest rates can easily be absorbed as CRE loans are refinanced, there just isn’t solid evidence that 200+ banks are going to go under by yearend. Or even in 2024. The count is at one small bank in Kansas so far.
It looks like the ones being hurt by CRE loans this cycle are the so-call sophisticated investors – CMBS lenders and REITs. Apparently, they outsmarted themselves:)
The Mann


UPDATE AUGUST 27, 2023 – Although forecasters are often wrong, current data shows an expectation for GDP to grow 1.9% (up from previous forecasts around 0.6%!!!) in the 3rd Quarter and 1.2% in the 4th Quarter. This would result in over a 2.0% growth rate for all of 2023. How wrong can those recession mongers be!!! Remember, listen to what the stock market is forecasting and not to what the economists are saying.

For 2024, current estimates are +1.3% for the year with each quarter being in the +1.0-1.5% range. It is too early to much faith in those figures. They will certainly change by yearend. But, they have been going up, not down. And no quarters are forecast to be negative. Much less the required two consecutive negative quarters. Keep putting pressure on those people calling for a recession now in 2024, after they admitted being wrong about 2023.

AUGUST 23, 2023 – Most people are aware of the inverted yield curve indicator predicting a recession. Duke professor and Canadian economist Campbell Harvey is credited with ‘inventing’ this indicator. I question that, but it doesn’t matter. The indicator has a perfect 8-for-8 record predicting recessions since World War II.
What doesn’t get much attention is the indicator PRECEDES recessions. If you see a graph, you will clearly see that the inverted yield curve comes before a recession occurs. Mr. Harvey says a recession has started on average 11-13 months after the yield curve becomes inverted. That is easy to see. It is fact. No argument from me about this lead time.
BUT, what I notice from the historical graph is the yield curve has always been at +100bp and up to +200bp by the time a recession starts. This gives us a long lead time to deal with a recession. It takes a long while and is a major move for the yield curve to go from the current -0.68% up to +1.00%-+2.00%. Until we see significant movement towards positive territory, no worries about a recession starting soon.
If you want to see what Mr. Harvey says and see the historical graph I am referring to, cut and paste the following link:
Also, a sales pitch for a neat item I bought several months ago – The Tidbyt. Go to to look at it and purchase one. It would make a nice gift.
Instead of having the Fake News Media on all day, I have a Tidbyt across the room from me. I have programmed it to give me current and future weather, info on tropical storms/hurricanes or other serious weather nearby, news headlines from various sources, the price of Bitcoin, and in the evenings the current 10-Year Treasury Bond yield and the difference between it and the 2-Year Treasury Bill. Right now, those are 4.34% and -0.68%. I will be aware of this moving towards zero well in advance. I do believe recently it was over -0.90%.
FYI, the yield curve stayed negative in July 2022. Thus, 11-13 months out is June to August 2023. Obviously, we are not in a recession. I believe I posted previously that this indicator would break its streak of accurate predictions. Mr. Harvey is saying be patient. He says ‘it is way too early’ to say the indicator is wrong. The stopped clock concept might make this indicator 9-for-9 one year. But, in my opinion, it is now wrong and is 8-for-9.
As there is no chance of a recession this year and the earliest it could possibly be would be the first two quarters of 2024, that would put us 18+ months out from when the yield curve went and stayed negative. Not unprecedented. But, certainly well beyond the norm.
I will wait to see +100bp to see if at that very moment we are in a recession. Remember, that will be a coincidence signal. It won’t be giving any lead time.
As I always say, we shall see.
The Mann


AUGUST 18, 2023 – The stock market fell through a critical level this week. Thus, I wanted to get my thoughts out there as to what appears to be happening and what we need to keep an eye on. As I continually complain about, you cannot be a broken record and hope you are right eventually. The market clearly tells us in advance what is going to happen.
The Dow 30 peaked on August 1st. It is down just about 4% as of today’s low. That is a minor decline. But, in the Elliott Wave Theory the decline crossed a level that should not have been broken. As such, we have to be alert to a trend change.
What the market has told us so far is that the economy will be fine into the 1st Quarter of 2024. There is basically zero chance of a recession occurring in the last two quarters of 2023. In fact, it is telling us that the news will be great this Winter. That said, if August 1 becomes a significant top, then the market is telling us that a chance of a recession by next Fall may occur. It will be October 2024 before we could have confirmation of two consecutive quarters of negative GDP. That assumes the 1st Quarter 2024 GDP will be positive.
It is just difficult to believe that right before the Presidential Election we will have confirmation of a recession. The incumbent administration does all it can to avoid such from occurring. That is why the first year of a new president is when a recession usually occurs.
The Regional Bank Index has had its largest decline since the bottom in May. It is down 11% from its recent high. The Homebuilders Index is down 6.5% from its recent high. The NASDAQ is down 8% from its recent highs. But, the NASDAQ’s waves are in better shape than the DOW 30. We will see if the indices align or keep diverging.
Treasury Bonds are about to break to new lows. Thus, interest rates are hitting new highs. The 30-year mortgage rate is above 7% again. It has been awhile since I called the top last year to the exact day. These are the highest rates in 21 years.
Ten-year treasuries are at 4.25%. The waves are projecting a move to 4.54%. The current rate is the highest in 12 years.
If the waves play out as expected, rates should go up about another 1/4% and then decline to the 2.5% to 3.3% range over the next year or such. The incumbent administration would certainly like that to happen during an election year! This scenario matches up with the market’s expectation that the Fed Funds Rate will be lowered 2 or 3 times in 2024.
My feeling is rates are finally back to market levels. We have had government-controlled, artificially low interest rates for most of the past 8 or so years. We are finally at a level where rates reflect the risk of underlying assets like bonds and real estate.
The market is at a critical stage. How it plays out will tell us what will happen in the Spring.
In regard to us Baby Boomers, I came across the following stats from Quill Intelligence. About 10,000 Baby Boomers turn 65 every day; seven in ten will need long-term care in their lifetime. The number of Americans over the age of 85 is expected to more than double from 2019 to 2040, from 6.6 million to 14.4 million. An estimated 711,700 caregiver jobs will open up every year from 2021 to 2031.
The good news is us Baby Boomers will remain in charge of the power positions and almost all of the world’s wealth for another 10-20 years. The generation before us earned the title The Greatest Generation. But, the Baby Boomer generation provided the peak for the world that hasn’t been seen since The Roman Empire. Things will decline generation after generation for hundreds of years to come. I do think we have just begun The Dark Ages II.
I guess I should end this cheerful post here.
The Mann


AUGUST 16, 2023 – I might be the only one who has thought about this. Probably because my mind never stops and I love numbers:) So, let’s get to the numbers.
We currently have about 335 million people. Looking at the US Population Clock at Census.Gov we add 1 net person every 15 seconds. Just fyi:) That site also has a World Population Clock and we are nearing 8 Billion people. More trivia for you in case you are on Jeopardy!
According to the St. Louis Fed, our current Employment/Population Ratio is 60.4%. Therefore, we have about 202,340,000 employed people. Unemployment is 3.5%. I don’t know if the Employment/Population Ratio does or does not include unemployed people. So, let’s say we have about 7.2 million unemployed people.
For decades, I have seen reports of around 200,000 to 300,000 new jobs every month. I have wondered how do we maintain an unemployment rate of 3.5% or 5% or 7% or whatever when adding say 3 million new jobs per year would employ everyone in 2 or 3 years?
Way in the back of my mind I remember reading somewhere (and about 30+ years ago) that most of these new jobs are simply due to population growth and not really more people being employed. Finally, after 30 years of this sticking in my mind (yes, I do keep things on my mind for years and even decades), I decided today to do some math:)
To population we go. Let’s say the average age of people entering the workforce is 21 years old. Sort of an average of those starting at 18 years old and those graduating college at 23 years old and then going to work.
America’s population increased by 2,660,000 between July 1, 2021 and July 1,2022. Multiplying this by today’s 60.4% Employment/Population Ratio yields 1,606,400 jobs are needed this year due to population growth. This equates to 134,000 (Rounded) new jobs per month are simply needed to employ our increasing population. Therefore, it is only the amount above 134,000 per month that is actually existing positions being filled by existing workers.
And that is why the unemployment rate doesn’t go to zero in 1-2 years. Most of the new jobs are being absorbed by the new (young) people entering the workforce.
In 2023, monthly job growth has averaged about 270,000 through July. This is almost double the amount needed each month to address population growth. That is a healthy amount of new jobs being absorbed by the existing population.
And many of you are now saying that was 15 minutes of my life I won’t get back lol The takeaway is when down the road monthly job growth slows to around 135,000 per month you will know that basically we are not adding any jobs. We are simply keeping up with population growth.
Hopefully, the next thing I think of to post about will be a bit more interesting:)
Stay cool out there.
The Mann


AUGUST 11, 2023 – The August report came in at 3.3%, just below my forecast of 3.4%-3.5%. The 3-month annualized inflation rate is 3.1%. The 6-month annualized inflation rate is 4.4%. These figures bracket the annualized rate (3.3%) and thus indicate the annual CPI should be range bound for awhile.
Based on the data, my prediction for next month’s figure is 3.5%-3.6%. I like the data and am confident the next reading will be in that range or a tick lower like this month.
Through the October report, the annual CPI figure should be about as boring as a Miami weather forecast – 88 degrees/77 degrees, 88/77, 87/77, 88/76…I expect annual CPI to trend around 3.5% (plus or minus 0.1%-0.2%) through the October reading.
As an aside, the market is telling the Federal Reserve not to raise the Fed Fund Rate at its September meeting.
Til next month’s report.
The Mann


UPDATE – AUGUST 10, 2023 – I just came across some interesting information. Over the past decade, regional banks only had 18% of their loan originations backed by office properties – larger banks had 26%. They also originated a lower share in hotels, industrial, and retail properties. Regional banks had 47% of their volume in apartments compared to 29% for larger banks. The concern about regional bank loan portfolios being decimated by office building loans is obviously unfounded.

AUGUST 9, 2023 – In mid-June I posted about the so-called CRE loan debacle that lies ahead. I provided some hypothetical numbers that showed for the most part borrowers will have no problem with their refis.
I just reviewed an appraisal of an apartment property that I also reviewed 5 years ago when the borrower purchased the property. The bank was kind enough to provide me the loan details then and now. So, let’s see how the numbers work out.
2018 – A $633,000 loan was made against an $800,000 appraised value (purchase price was $840,000). The LTV was 79%. Annual Debt Service was $49,670 based on a 4.89% interest rate and 20-year amortization. The appraiser estimated NOI at $60,387. The DSCR was 1.22.
2023 – The outstanding loan balance is now $527,230. The current appraised value is $1,280,000. The new LTV is 41%(!). Annual Debt Service will be $49,814 based on a 7.20% interest rate and 20-year amortization. The appraiser estimates NOI at $97,474. The new DSCR is 1.96(!). ((I was curious what interest rate would make the Annual Debt Service result in the same 1.22 DSCR as when the original loan was made. It is 14.27%! I shout to the moon that everyone can easily afford 7%+ interest rates!!! Wake me up when we hit 14%:) ))
This will be the case with most apartment and industrial loans. Net Operating Income has increased significantly more than Annual Debt Service. Higher interest rates of 200-300bp will not be a problem for borrowers.
As I noted in my June post, office and retail property loans probably will run into issues. I also think the above is more applicable to income-producing property loans than owner-occupied property loans.
As I write this, regional bank stocks are up 38% from their lows a few months ago. The market is telling us it has no concerns about CRE loans. I believe the market over the economists and pundits that are a broken record about CRE loan and a recession.
The Mann
Addenda – In the real-world example above, I kept the refinancing at the current outstanding balance. The borrower is actually getting new monies and refinancing $800,000. The Annual Debt Service will be $75,586. The resulting LTV is 63% and DSCR is 1.29. Even with a significant increase in the loan amount, the loan ratios are in safe territory.
I continue to say both commercial and residential borrowers can easily afford 7%+ interest rate loans.


AUGUST 2, 2023 – As I predicted at the beginning of the year, by this Summer the broken record recession mongers would start throwing in the towel and admit there will be no recession this year. The first of many apologies comes from BofA.
The Mann
January 13, 2023 – Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan said Friday the bank is preparing for a potential recession this year, including the possibility of a sharper downturn where unemployment climbs rapidly.
“Our baseline scenario contemplates a mild recession,” he said during a call with investors. “But we also add to that a downside scenario, and what this results in is 95% of our reserve methodology is weighted toward a recessionary environment in 2023.”
In the case of a more severe recession, Moynihan said the second-largest U.S. bank anticipates the jobless rate will climb to 5.5% in 2023 and remain at 5% or higher through 2024.
August 2, 2023 – (Bloomberg) — Economists at Bank of America Corp. scrapped their forecast for a recession in the US, becoming the first large Wall Street bank to officially reverse its call amid growing optimism about the economic outlook.
“Recent incoming data has made us reassess our prior view that a mild recession in 2024 is the most likely outcome for the US economy,” BofA economists, led by Michael Gapen, wrote in a note to clients on Wednesday.
“Growth in economic activity over the past three quarters has averaged 2.3%, the unemployment rate has remained near all-time lows, and wage and price pressures are moving in the right direction, albeit gradually,” they wrote.